Posts by City Fan

in the arnold schwarzenegger movie "the sixth day" (not to be confused with "end of days") people are cloned by having their brain memory pattern copied and saved on a disk.

human bodies without memories called "blanks" are also made.

at the appropriate time the duplicate memory pattern is stamped onto the "blank" human body.

City Fan

Great points hooberus

The watchtower does not really teach a resurrection hope, but instead teaches that those who die before armageddon will remain in their graves, dead, rotting, forever. They will simply be replaced (like in the movie) with "blank" human bodies stamped with a copy of the witness memory pattern.

That puts into words exactly what I've always thought the WTS resurrection doctrine really means. In my view the only way a bodily resurrection can work is if there is a soul/spirit that continues after death that can be put back into a re-created body. Otherwise it is simply a clone of the original.

CF.

40

The "Critical Times" Con-Game - Dec. 15 Watchtower

by metatron in

"all this testifies that we are living in 'critical times'" - 2 tim.

3: 1-5 (dec. 15, 2003 wt pg.

they never get tired of repeating this deception, do they?.

City Fan

Heathen

I don't think that revelations was written about rome but about future events

I can't see how Babylon the Great at Revelation 17:9,18 can be anything but Rome. "The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman is sitting; And the woman that you saw is herself the great city which dominates and controls the rulers and the leaders of the earth." (Amplified bible)

The writers of books such as Daniel and Revelation thought they were living in the last days.

13

Were Daniel and Jeremiah contemporaries?

by shotgun in

i've recently read who wrote the gospels, it mentioned on a side note from the gospels that daniel was probably written around 200 bce not during nebuchadnezzars reign.. in daniel chapter 9 he mentions reading the phophetic words of jeremiah about the 70 years of servitude.

jeremiah lived in a different land (judah) while daniel was in babylon.

how would daniel have been able to get jeremiahs scrolls seeing they had just been written and also the position daniel was in as chief of nebuchadnezzars magic practising priests would not have bode well for real jewish worshippers to think about making any saturday morning placements with him.. the book i read states that jeremiah, daniel and most of the other books seperate from the talmud were not canonized until around 200 bce.. any thoughts on this or have you done or read anything on this subject.

City Fan

There's little doubt that the later chapters of Daniel i.e. 7 - 12 were written during the Maccabean wars. Why would a sixth century prophet go into such minute detail on events that took place in the second century BC. Chapter 11 is a very precise summary of the Syrian wars right up to the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 164BC. It is likely that this chapter was written just before his death as the prophecy about where he died is wrong!

It is difficult to date earlier chapters but it is likely that they were adapted from other older stories. One such is the dream of Nebuchadnezzar in chapter 4 and his subsequent 7 'times' of madness. This story was originally about Nabonidus who did spend a number of years away from Babylon in Teima. The Prayer of Nabonidus found at Qumran gives the duration of Nabonidus' affliction as 7 years.

13

Were Daniel and Jeremiah contemporaries?

by shotgun in

i've recently read who wrote the gospels, it mentioned on a side note from the gospels that daniel was probably written around 200 bce not during nebuchadnezzars reign.. in daniel chapter 9 he mentions reading the phophetic words of jeremiah about the 70 years of servitude.

jeremiah lived in a different land (judah) while daniel was in babylon.

how would daniel have been able to get jeremiahs scrolls seeing they had just been written and also the position daniel was in as chief of nebuchadnezzars magic practising priests would not have bode well for real jewish worshippers to think about making any saturday morning placements with him.. the book i read states that jeremiah, daniel and most of the other books seperate from the talmud were not canonized until around 200 bce.. any thoughts on this or have you done or read anything on this subject.

City Fan

JCanon -

because of the conspiracy during the Persian Period to claim that Xerxes was Artaxerxes when,in fact, they were the same king,

The bible itself states that Xerxes and Artaxerxes were different people with different reigns:

Here are several translations of Ezra 4:5-7: (with some footnotes)

New Living Translation:

5 They bribed agents to work against them and to frustrate their aims. This went on during the entire reign of King Cyrus of Persia and lasted until King Darius of Persia took the throne.

6 Years later when Xerxes began his reign, the enemies of wrote him a letter of accusation against the people of and . 7 And even later, during the reign of King Artaxerxes of Persia, the enemies of Judah, led by Bishlam, Mithredath, and Tabeel, sent a letter to Artaxerxes

Good News Translation:

5 They also bribed Persian government officials to work against them. They kept on doing this throughout the reign of Emperor Cyrus and into the reign of Emperor Darius.

6 At the beginning of the reign of Emperor Xerxes, the enemies of the people living in and brought written charges against them. R13 7 Again in the reign of Emperor Artaxerxes of Persia, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and their associates wrote a letter to the emperor.

Cross Reference R13: 4.6 Es 1.1.

New English Translation:

4:5 They were hiring advisors to oppose them, so as to frustrate their plans, throughout the time of King Cyrus of Persia until the reign of King Darius of Persia.

4:6 At the beginning of the reign of Ahasuerus they filed an accusation against the inhabitants of Judah and Jerusalem. 4:7 And in the reign of Artaxerxes, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel, and the rest of their colleagues wrote to King Artaxerxes of Persia.

[Reference to 4:6 - sn Ahasuerus, otherwise known as Xerxes I, ruled ca. 485-464 b.c. ]

New International Version (NIV):

5 They hired counselors to work against them and frustrate their plans during the entire reign of Cyrus king of Persia and down to the reign of Darius king of Persia.
6 At the beginning of the reign of Xerxes, [2] they lodged an accusation against the people of Judah and Jerusalem.
7 And in the days of Artaxerxes king of , Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel and the rest of his associates wrote a letter to Artaxerxes.

[2] 4:6 Hebrew Ahasuerus , a variant of Xerxes' Persian name

New American Standard Version:

5 and hired counselors against them to frustrate their counsel all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia.

6 Now in the reign of Ahasuerus, in the beginning of his reign, they wrote an accusation against the inhabitants of and . [see translator?s notes]

7 And in the days of Artaxerxes, Bishlam, Mithredath, Tabeel and the rest of his colleagues wrote to Artaxerxes king of ;

Translator?s notes:

Or Xerxes; Heb Ahash-verosh

Achashverosh (31c); of for. or.; king of :--Ahasuerus(31).

Cross reference: AMPLIFIED Esther 1:1 IT WAS in the days of Ahasuerus [Xerxes], the Ahasuerus who reigned from to over 127 provinces.

13

Were Daniel and Jeremiah contemporaries?

by shotgun in

i've recently read who wrote the gospels, it mentioned on a side note from the gospels that daniel was probably written around 200 bce not during nebuchadnezzars reign.. in daniel chapter 9 he mentions reading the phophetic words of jeremiah about the 70 years of servitude.

jeremiah lived in a different land (judah) while daniel was in babylon.

how would daniel have been able to get jeremiahs scrolls seeing they had just been written and also the position daniel was in as chief of nebuchadnezzars magic practising priests would not have bode well for real jewish worshippers to think about making any saturday morning placements with him.. the book i read states that jeremiah, daniel and most of the other books seperate from the talmud were not canonized until around 200 bce.. any thoughts on this or have you done or read anything on this subject.

City Fan

Runningman

? In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasu-e'rus, by birth a Mede, who became king over the realm of the Chalde'ans? ? Daniel 9:1

I think this 'Darius the Mede' was different than the 'Darius the Persian' mentioned elsewhere in the bible. In my view 'Darius the Mede' was Astyages the last king of the Medes. Other Jewish writings show that the Ahasu-erus of Daniel 9:1 was also the Median king Cyaxares who captured Nineveh with Nebuchadnezzar (Tobit 14:15). His son Astyages was the last Median king before Cyrus the Persian (Bel 1:1).

Although Daniel's view that the Medes conquered Babylon is wrong, it helps with understanding the rest of the book. Daniel is following the traditional Persian line of powers, that is Assyria, Media, Persia then Greece. All the visions of beasts then become more obvious, and all point to Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the persecution of the Jews under his rule.

Daniel also includes other legends such as the seven year illness of Nabonidus, but assigns this story to the better known Nebuchadnezzar.